I'm getting ****** off

[airconednightmare]

Ok this is nothing to do with gardening but i fancy a good rant

Is it just me or is this new government the work of some kind of capitalist devil?

They want to charge students £9000 a year (on top of the £5000 loan) and as if that wasn't bad enough they want to stop EMA (money given to poor folk to help them stay in school). They are basically saying you have to have rich parents if you want to do better than work for ever in a minimum wage shit hole.

And its not just young poor people who are being screwed over, the VAT increase disproportionally affects people on low incomes.

why should the worst off pay for the mistakes made by a bunch of spoilt, rich and stupid w...chough...ankers?

[Bunty]

Im finding this student loan business as joke as well.
I can't believe that want to stop EMA as well. That thirty pounds a week helps a lot of students be able to afford transport to and from college and also afford textbooks!
Its just ridiculous!

[amy]

Well the University fees rise is certainly a mistake in my eyes - seems like we're heading towards America wherein parents have to start saving the day their child is born to have even a hope of sending them to Uni when they grow up.

But in regards to the EMA, I'm pretty glad they're getting rid of it - in my experience it's only used to fund clothes and nights out anyway.

The justification for it is that it's used to fund school books and travel. Well at that stage of education, most books are leant to you anyway, and if they need travel, give them a bus pass...

[johnmichael]

And Edd Milliband says millionaires should still get child benefit,what sort of answer to an economic crisis is that?

[airconednightmare]

Originally Posted by amy

Well the University fees rise is certainly a mistake in my eyes - seems like we're heading towards America wherein parents have to start saving the day their child is born to have even a hope of sending them to Uni when they grow up.

But in regards to the EMA, I'm pretty glad they're getting rid of it - in my experience it's only used to fund clothes and nights out anyway.

The justification for it is that it's used to fund school books and travel. Well at that stage of education, most books are leant to you anyway, and if they need travel, give them a bus pass...

The idea behind EMA was to give bright kids from poor backgrounds a financial incentive to stay in school college etc compared to the usual leave and get a min wage job. The whole point was to give them a wee bit of beer money...

Originally Posted by johnmichael

And Edd Milliband says millionaires should still get child benefit,what sort of answer to an economic crisis is that?

It's not an answer, but neither is increasing VAT for the families who do deserve benefits.

My solution would be, stop the 2 wars we really can't afford (and don't let Libya get out of hand), cancel the new nuclear subs and tax the arse off the bankers who caused the problem.

[johnmichael]

Originally Posted by airconednightmare

The idea behind EMA was to give bright kids from poor backgrounds a financial incentive to stay in school college etc compared to the usual leave and get a min wage job. The whole point was to give them a wee bit of beer money...



It's not an answer, but neither is increasing VAT for the families who do deserve benefits.

My solution would be, stop the 2 wars we really can't afford (and don't let Libya get out of hand), cancel the new nuclear subs and tax the arse off the bankers who caused the problem.

Your last comment makes common sense,why cant politicians see the obvious?

[airconednightmare]

Because, (a) in the de-regulated, free market world the politicians created during the past 30-40 years, the banks, investment companies and money markets have the power to make a country fail if they wish to do so. this actually happened in the early 90's when they forced the uk to withdraw from the ERM. And (b) the same bankers, investors and currency gamblers provide substantial funds to all 3 main parties.

[amy]

Originally Posted by airconednightmare

The idea behind EMA was to give bright kids from poor backgrounds a financial incentive to stay in school college etc compared to the usual leave and get a min wage job. The whole point was to give them a wee bit of beer money...

Thing is though, apparently some studies and the like have shown that most the kids who stayed in school would've done with or without ema.

Which makes perfect sense because either they want an education or they don't - £30 ain't going to make a huge difference. If they don't want to carry on in school they can go get a job and earn a whole lot more than that a week.

And if they do want to stay in school then they'll just be happy to have the extra cash for the weekend - very few would have chosen not to carry on if the money wasn't there.

[Alison_Kristina]

I'm all for increased University fees.

I went to Uni five years ago as a mature student. My first time at Uni. I was shocked. The older mature students like me were there to learn, but the other 75% were school leavers and a good half of them were not interested in anything but booze and sex. Sometimes you could hardly hear the tutor because of all the kids catching up on the gossip or planning wheat to do that evening.

Sorry, but from my experience many people are not at uni to study or take it seriously.

Not only that but because the standard of education at schools these days is awful, the tutors had to spend half the time teaching the kids the basics of reading, writing and maths, as well as more 'advanced' things like learning to write essays. Believe it or not for the first few months our assignments were things like drawing bar graphs. I learnt that stuff in Primary School !

Needless to say, ALL the mature students in my intake year left before the third year. Why? Because we were there to learn, to be stretched, to be challenged. Instead we were treated like idiots and the syllabus was, frankly, just an extension of A level. When I complained to my head of year I was told if that's what I wanted, I should have gone to Oxford or Cambridge!

I'm sorry, but in my experience many of the people at Uni should not be there. University degrees have become ten a penny, they are worthless.

I fully support anyone of any background being able to go to University, rich or poor, but IMo people should have to work hard and get good grades first. Those who cannot read or write or do basic maths have no place at a University.

Hopefully the new fees (and only a few universities will be charging the maximum) will reduce the numbers going to Uni, and will make those who do get there sit up and try to learn more and take the whole thing seriously.

No more free rides!

But I totally disagree with anyone who can afford it being able to go to Uni. University should be for the brightest people, the high achievers, it should not be a given right for anyone of any educational background. I fully support scholarships for those who cannot afford it, and again, these scholarships should be educationally fought over at school, so only the brightest get them.

Sorry, but for 40 years I wanted to go to Uni, and when I was finally able to, it was an honour for me, It was a proud moment. The last thing I expected was to be sitting in the same class as, frankly, educationally challenged people who had no educational right to be there.

Ali.

[airconednightmare]

I can understand your point, i'm not going to lie there were a lot of people at uni who probably would have been better off somewhere else. Uni shouldn't be made easy so that more people can have degrees because it de-values them. It should be about helping the best and brightest to achive their full potential rather than meeting a government target or filling the course to get funding etc....

However the fees are a different isssue, if anything they will increase the disparity which led to your tutors comment about oxford and cambridge. If the best uni's charge more to ensure they only get the best students then they can afford the best lecturers and equipment etc, whilst the uni's at the bottom of the pile charge the min to attract anyone, so they can get govenment funding for the course and the tutors just pass the thick kids cos they need them there next year and so on. In the mean time any poor but dedicated student will be put off the best by the high fees or find themselves at one of the rest where they arn't being stretched. And moreover the increase won't stop the people who use uni as a 3 year **** up, if they don't get a decent job they still don't have to pay it back....

[GMB27]

Originally Posted by amy

...But in regards to the EMA, I'm pretty glad they're getting rid of it - in my experience it's only used to fund clothes and nights out anyway...

I have to agree with this, and thats from the viewpoint of somebody who received it for a while. What a pointless allowance, it could be a much better allocated resource to help student legitimately